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trz
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - Jan 22 2006 :  13:09:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey all I'm new to this site also new to playing guitar so I've got a lot to learn. ?? I'm seeing alot of G2 C2 and D2 chords in the worship music But I don't know how to play them or what they look like, can't find them on the internet anywhere can someone help me out with what these chords look like? Thanks trz

trz
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - Jan 23 2006 :  18:58:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
HEllOOO is anybody out there???????????
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webmaster
Forum Admin

USA
54 Posts

Posted - Jan 23 2006 :  22:37:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry for the delay in answering...

"2" chords are a suspended chord, and the 2 means that the chords are triads built from the 1st, 2nd, 5th notes of a major scale, instead of the normal 1st, 3rd, 5th notes that make up a major chord.

The "Basic Guitar Chords" section of "Uncle Bob's Guitar Lessons" on this web site contains chord charts for "2" chords...

http://www.christianguitar.com/guitar/lessons/UncleBob/appendix_a.asp

The WebMaster
www.christianguitar.com

No trees were killed in the posting of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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trz
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - Jan 24 2006 :  13:42:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you so much I truly appreciate it. I'll see if I cna't find them
trz
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musicman
Starting Member

14 Posts

Posted - Jan 28 2006 :  12:54:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think you are correct Wedmaster. A suspended chord is a 4th, so like G4. The first letter says the base chord, if there is only one number afterwards than that is the note that is added on. So a G2 is the 1st, 2nd, and 5th in the key of G or G, A, D. Which is, if you think about it, is the 5th chords suspended. So instead of a G2, some music will say Dsus.

So what I am leading up to is, if you know suspended chords, you can play any 2nd chord. So look at this chart.

A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#

Now picture it as a circle, so after G# come A. So lets say you are playing a song with a D2 chord in it. The way to make it into a sus chord in to count 7 spaces to the right(remember once you get to G# go to A) and change the 2 into a sus. So a D2 is the same as a Asus.


Hopefully I explained pretty well. And Webmaster, I will be happy to discus out differences in musical theory. (I am trying to avoid the word argue, but that is what I like to call it)
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Uncle Bob
Uncle Bob

USA
78 Posts

Posted - Jan 30 2006 :  11:30:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi "musicman",

Actually, both a 4th chord (1st-4th-5th notes) and 2nd chord (1st-2nd-5th notes) are suspended chords.

That being said, suspended 4th chords are more commonly used, so as you stated in your reply you will often see a suspended 4th chord name like Dsus, even though that actually means Dsus4. You will also commonly see a suspended 2nd chord listed as simply a "2" chord, with a name like D2, even though that actually means Dsus2.

So to recap, Dsus4 or Dsus means a suspended 4th triad built from the 1st-4th-5th notes of a scale and Dsus2 or D2 means a suspended 2nd triad built from the 1st-2nd-5th notes of a scale.

You are only partly correct in your assertion that a G2 chord is actually the same thing as a Dsus chord. While is is true that they both contain they same three notes, G - A - D, they are not the same chord depending on the inversion that you are using.

For example, if you built a triad using the notes G - A - D, you are playing either a Gsus2 chord or a Dsus4/G chord. Conversely, if you built a triad using the notes D - G - A, you are playing either a Dsus4 chord or a Gsus2/D.

The chords with the "slashes" in their titles are often refered to as "slash chords", which is really a colloquial phrase for a chord inversion, and the note following the slash refers the the base note in the inversion. For example, take a look at the "Slash Chords" section at the following URL:

http://www.christianguitar.com/guitar/lessons/UncleBob/lesson_12_a.asp

In that lesson you will see that you build a C major chord from the notes C (1st) - E (3rd) - G (5th). As you shift the notes in the chord to E (3rd) - G (5th) - C (1st), you still have a C major chord, but the lowest note in the chord is now an E (3rd), so that chord is called C/E or "C over E". When the 3rd of a chord is in the lowest note in a chord form, this is called the first inversion.

You can view the rest of that lesson for more details, but in summary it talks about creating various inversions for chords, and shows how a C, C/E, and C/G chord all use the same notes, but are not technically the exact same chord - they are inversions of the same chord.

That being said, you can use a suspended 4th and the corresponding suspended 2nd chord that is up a 4th from the root chord interchangeably as chord subsitutions, provided that you know your circle of 5ths and chord inversions appropriately. (By reading your email, it appears as though you do. )

So when you see Asus2 (or A2), you can play an Esus4, but bear in mind that you are playing either an Esus4 or an Asus2/E. Likewise, an Asus2 chord is also an Esus4/A chord.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Uncle Bob
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musicman
Starting Member

14 Posts

Posted - Feb 01 2006 :  10:35:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know how chords are inverted. But a C in the 1st inversion is still a C. I could play the lowest A on the piano, middle C, and the highest E and the chord would still be Am. I play a lot of classical piano and when I identify a chord in the music I am not wrong because I did not state the inversion. (Belive it or there are chords in most classical music). But some of those chords are stretched out over 4 or 5 octaves. It would be silly me to say. "That is a F#m9add13 with a A as the base note, half a octave later come a E, that is followed by the F# with a G# one whole step afterwards, don't forget that you need to jump a major 4th to get to the next note which is a C#, and last but not least, one octave and a note higher, is the D#" Now I am using humor slightly to prove my point, but write those notes down from lowest to highest and tell me a better way to right the chord. There is not one. When I say that the chord is a F#m9add13, you accept that that is the chord without thinking "Hey, I think he named the wrong inversion.

Now Uncle, I am not arguing the fact that a Dsus with a G base sounds different that a Dsus with a D base. But I am just saying that it is the same chord, not the same inversion. Do you how many different way there are to play a C chord(one of the simplest) on a guitar? Now here is a better question, do you know how many different ways there are to play a C chord on the piano? Let me help you, way more than 20. And that is the simplest chord.

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Uncle Bob
Uncle Bob

USA
78 Posts

Posted - Feb 01 2006 :  19:30:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow - you weren't kidding when you said:
quote:
I am trying to avoid the word argue, but that is what I like to call it.
I think that you missed my point, because I believe we're actually more in agreement than you might think.

I agree that a Gsus2 and a Dsus4/G are the same chord, but your original post said that a G2 will be written as a Dsus. If that happens, then it's a mistake.

Let's say a person writes a song and they play a Gsus2. Some time later another person transcribes the song and writes Dsus4. In this situation, the transcriber made a mistake. Either they did not hear the chord correctly or they simply did not did not list the correct inversion. (In this particular case, that would be Dsus4/G.)

So, when looking at just a Gsus2 and a Dsus4 chord:
  • Do both chords use the the exact same notes?
    Yes. We agree on that issue. (G-A-D and D-G-A)
  • Are Dsus4 and Dsus4/G the same chord?
    Yes, but they are different inversions. We agree on that issue.
  • So, are Gsus2 and a Dsus4 the same chord?
    In this particular case we have two different chords that happen to be inversions of each other. Same notes, but different chords. If you played a Dsus4 instead of a Gsus2, you would probably get away with it because these two chords are inversions of each other.
BTW - Your original post had also seemed to imply that only 4th chords were suspended and that 2nd chords are not. My apologies if I misunderstood you.

Uncle Bob
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musicman
Starting Member

14 Posts

Posted - Feb 04 2006 :  19:56:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All I am saying is that if the same notes are in the chord, the chord is the same no matter what that inversion.

But I do see the point of 'discussing' this one point much farther. Obviously we have learned the meaning of the word Chord differently.

I believe that a chord is a chord, no matter what the inversion, is a chord. Even though I agree that different inversions sound different.

You believe that two chords can be inversions of each other, but not the same chord because they are inversions, nothing more.


But I do have one more question. Since you think that two different inversions of a chord are different mainly because they sound different. On a piano, is a plain C chord with the lowest C, then E, and G. The same as a C chord played with the second to highest C, then E, and G. Because, anyone who has played the piano know that throws two chord sound dramatically different.
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Jimmy
Starting Member

USA
8 Posts

Posted - Feb 17 2007 :  03:22:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I may sound silly but I read all the coments of both and I see you both know a great amount about music. I would think that even though the C chord spoken of would be the same C chord however because of the octaves would sound different. I believe that you could not refer to them both as merley the same Chord or you would create a state of confussion the musician not knowing what inversion of the Chord to play.
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Dan Brown
Average Member

USA
70 Posts

Posted - Nov 29 2007 :  21:30:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm new here, and should probably just be quiet, but it appears both of you are making it much too difficult for this apparent beginner. Most guitar teachers overload students with more knowledge than they can grasp all at once. Telling someone that a D2 (Dadd9 or Dsus2, etc. is simply a D chord where an E note replaces the F#, or A2 is where a G note replaces the C# and expose him to the sound of it makes much more sense to me than an elaborate lecture and debate.

I have always called sus2 and sus4 chords "flavor chords," along with "slash" chords like D/F# and A/C#, maj7s, 6ths and 9ths. One needs to grasp the math and sound of the 3 major, 3 minor and 3 accidental chords in each key they would play in long before any of this is really important. Come back and add "flavor" to the basics, once basics mastered. I amazes me how many guitar teachers and books still teach making a G with the first three fingers, rather than the 2nd, 3rd and 4th, which makes an easy change to a C, or a G7 difficult and making a change from a G to a Gsus2 320203)or Gsus4 (320013) without moving all four fingers impossible. Oh well, what do I know? They tell me my brain occaisionally shorts out!
Blessed, but wondering, Dan
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PROPHETSONG
Advanced Member

USA
190 Posts

Posted - Nov 30 2007 :  21:36:10  Show Profile  Send PROPHETSONG a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Learning to play guitar is like building a house. The part of the construction involves establishing a strong foundation. Learn your basic major and minor chords first, and do not worry about the others. Once you have those down and you play some songs with those. Then move on from there. Do not get bogged down with a whole lot of theory at this point, now is the time to build the basics. I suggest you start with the basics majors chord,a b c d e f g, then learn the seven minor version of those chords. When you learn those then you can start on the dominate 7th chords this will give 21 chords to play with. You have got to add to your arsenal a little bit at a time.
On Petra praise two the chords to each of the songs on that cd are printed on the inside of the jacket cover. Set your heart to worship God and praise him with your guitar, with his blessing things come to gether a lot quicker. I hope this has helped you.
sincerely Mike.
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Brown

I'm new here, and should probably just be quiet, but it appears both of you are making it much too difficult for this apparent beginner. Most guitar teachers overload students with more knowledge than they can grasp all at once. Telling someone that a D2 (Dadd9 or Dsus2, etc. is simply a D chord where an E note replaces the F#, or A2 is where a G note replaces the C# and expose him to the sound of it makes much more sense to me than an elaborate lecture and debate.

I have always called sus2 and sus4 chords "flavor chords," along with "slash" chords like D/F# and A/C#, maj7s, 6ths and 9ths. One needs to grasp the math and sound of the 3 major, 3 minor and 3 accidental chords in each key they would play in long before any of this is really important. Come back and add "flavor" to the basics, once basics mastered. I amazes me how many guitar teachers and books still teach making a G with the first three fingers, rather than the 2nd, 3rd and 4th, which makes an easy change to a C, or a G7 difficult and making a change from a G to a Gsus2 320203)or Gsus4 (320013) without moving all four fingers impossible. Oh well, what do I know? They tell me my brain occaisionally shorts out!
Blessed, but wondering, Dan


MIKE-WWW.PROPHETSONG.MYSITE.COM/ http://www.myspace.com/prophetsong777
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Jinrim
Starting Member

USA
1 Posts

Posted - Mar 18 2009 :  22:35:28  Show Profile  Send Jinrim a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys,

I am so happy to read all your comments and answers in here. You all made me curious and said to myself, "Wow I got the answer to my question." As I was writing notes and keep on reading all the answers, I realized that I do not have the right answers after all. I thought that I could finally practice my assignment for this week, but then you guys just made me laugh so hard (with all those explanations) that I could not resist but to thank you for sharing your ideas about slash notes, inversion and d2. Now, I am not sure whom to follow on how to play d2 or c2, because I am also a beginner. I will pray that you will all find a better solution on explaining D2 or C2 in a simple as possible way in the future. Thank you so much. I had a great time reading everbody's comment.
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Jesus_Loves_You
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - Apr 15 2009 :  10:10:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If it doesn't edify..isn't it better to keep quiet?

Isn't our God the Lord of the music as well? Are we giving Him glory by arguing over such trivial matters?

I guess as brothers, we ought to learn how to turn and submit to the Lord to deal with one of our greatest enemies - our own ugly pride






J.S. BACH: "The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul."
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rocket955
Advanced Member

USA
254 Posts

Posted - Jun 15 2009 :  22:03:45  Show Profile  Click to see rocket955's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jesus_Loves_You

If it doesn't edify..isn't it better to keep quiet?

Isn't our God the Lord of the music as well? Are we giving Him glory by arguing over such trivial matters?

I guess as brothers, we ought to learn how to turn and submit to the Lord to deal with one of our greatest enemies - our own ugly pride









I agree that pride is a harmful thing but if we can get past that learning chord structure can be useful in worship.I play 2nd's and 4th's shamelessly I use 5 chords (just the 1st and 5th) 11th, 13th's and 9th's (2nd's an octave higher). This type of voicing produces attitudes in the singers. I don't want to come off like a "know it all" but I have been playing for a long time and am willing to help anyone in their Christian ministry if I can.
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